Talk:2010 Group Project 1
Group Assessment Criteria
The key points relating to the topic that your group allocated are clearly described
- Introduction perhaps too sweeping "ultrasound in 1700's"?
- History timeline covers both early and recent related ultrasound topics
- Donald and MacVicar reference missing for 1963 gestational sac?
- "down syndrome" should be "Down syndrome" but preferable trisomy 21.
- use Wiki style bullet points
- "Reasons for getting chorionic villus sampling can include" should be elsewhere in the project.
- Why is there not a section in this project on villi (villus) structure and cells collected? This would be a part of the educational component.
- (Historic background) Formatting - "Brief timeline of CVS use" this should be a sub-heading. Nothing newer than 1986 for the timeline.
- (Ethical concerns) "The Bioethics involved in Health Care" why is this capitalised? This sentence sounds like a direct quotation and if so should by in quotation marks.
- (Hypertensive disorders of pregnancy) The content here is incorrectly ordered. Should introduce with "There has been conflicting evidence in literature that suggests that CVS is associated with hypertensive disorders in pregnancy such as pre-clampsia and gestational hypertension." then give the description of these conditions.
- Nothing about the changing trend in ultrasound scans (number, type) and potential effects.
- Project would benefit from a better closing section.
The choice of content, headings and sub-headings, diagrams, tables, graphs show a good understanding of the topic area
Figure 1 - File:ZUltrasound Image of Fetal Aorta.jpg
- no indication of fetal age in scan
- Dr. Joe Antony
Figure 2 - File:ZHydrophone.jpg
- no indication of hydrophone age
Figure 3 - File:ZUltrasound_System.jpg
Figure 4 - File:ZUltrasound_Exam.JPG
Figure 5 - File:ZScan Lines.jpg (Illustration by z3252833)
- not clear how this is a student drawn image?
Figure 6 - Types of Transducers and Scans
- table showing information about transducers and the images formed.
- student drawn image of transducer head ono indication of original source(s) used in preparing.
Figure 7 - File:ZUltrasound Image of Fetal Aorta.jpg
Figure 8 - File:ZDoppler Image of Fetal Aorta.jpg
- Dr. Joe Antony
- no indication of what the colour spectrum actually means.
Figure 9 - File:Z3DCleft Lip Picture.jpg
- Dr. Joe Antony
Figure 10 - File:ZAnencephaly.jpg (uploaded 19:38, September 26, 2010)
- the linked image source in not available, therefore cannot confirm the copyright status
- a scientific source should have been used here.
- MH - this figure will be deleted from the project page due to unknown copyright status.
Figure 11 - File:ZPulmonary_Atresia.jpg
- scientific reference source with correct copyright information
Figure 12 - File:ZUltrasound_machine.jpg
- good recent machine, but no description of components etc.
- why is there no better labeled version of the equipment used.
Figure 13 - File:ZFetus_yawning.jpg
- this is a single frame so does not actually show "yawning" but a fetes with mouth open.
- there is no description of fettle age, view or technical information about how image collected.
- tables are clearly organised and layout is good.
- no identification of "when" ultrasound scan (should be carried out) and provide diagnostic information about genetic abnormalities.
Content is correctly cited and referenced
- content is generally correctly cited.
The wiki has an element of teaching at a peer level using the student's own innovative diagrams, tables or figures and/or using interesting examples or explanations
- tables could have used legends with some explanations.
Evidence of significant research relating to basic and applied sciences that goes beyond the formal teaching activities
- I am disappointed by the few scientific sources used here
- cited 14 times - Ellwood, D.A. (1995) The Role of Ultrasound in Prenatal Diagnosis. In Trent, R.J. (Ed.), Handbook of Prenatal Diagnosis. Cambridge, England: Cambridge University Press
- cited 5 times - Kremkali, F.W. (2006) Diagnostic Ultrasound Principles and Instruments (7th ed.) St Louis: Saunders Elsevier.
- PubMed references cited - only 4
- By using textbooks that are not available to the online reader you have limited the usefulness of these sources.
- An effort should have been made to source good scientific sources readily available for further reading.
- there are also entire journals given over to ultrasound and none of these are cited, listed or sourced.
- "ultrasound" All (349655) Review (34352) Free Full Text (46962)
- "fetal ultrasound" All (31660) Review (3825) Free Full Text (2135)
For example, this reference below took 2 minutes to find and had better images.
Reproducibility of fetal heart volume by 3D-sonography using the XI VOCAL method. Barreto EQ, Milani HF, Araujo Júnior E, Haratz KK, Rolo LC, Nardozza LM, Guimarães Filho HA, Moron AF. Cardiovasc Ultrasound. 2010 May 12;8:17. PMID: 20459848 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20459848 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2876997
Fetal environment. Kinare A. Indian J Radiol Imaging. 2008 Nov;18(4):326-44. PMID: 19774194 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19774194
- (Glossary) Missing terms - chorion frondosum, Tay-sachs disease
Develops and edits the wiki entries in accordance with the above guidelines
- typo in first sentence and line of Current Research and Future Uses in Prenatal Diagnosis "fetused"
- (Useful links) Correct Wiki terminology should be "External Links".
Hey yes .. it looks much better now .. and the advantage table is super awesome very simplified and easy to read la :) !!! so we are done yes ? ... --Navneet Ahuja 11:42, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
Hey Nany! Yeah, I was adding a few more pictures to balance out our text. Do you think it looks better now? There aren't areas of balnk space anymore. Also, in line with that suggestion we got, I've added a table of advantages and disadvantages. --z3252833 11:20, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
Hey sam ,... i was about to upload the pic and i saw u already put it up .. ?? so i put another one in the current research section .. !! ... --Navneet Ahuja 10:19, 6 October 2010 (UTC)
Hey sam .. i will upload the pic tonight and firstly i have to press the " upload file" yes? ... and of course feel free to change , cut , add anything to the history section la ... cya soon :) --Navneet Ahuja 23:30, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
Hey Nany! Looks good; great job. I'm just going to go through and fix some grammar stuff, okay? The only other thing is that photo you had of the machine, and if you can get them pictures to put in the history - it's looking kind of word-y right now and I think it needs some brightening up. :) --z3252833 21:27, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
Hey sam .. i have already uploaded the history section .. please let me know what u think and i dont think u should cut down anything because its fine as it is la ..otherwise like what u've said .. the information will be lost and like not good la .. it wouldnt be consistent anymore .. :) !!! --Navneet Ahuja 00:54, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
Hey Nany! I just wondered how you were going with putting up those pictures and writing that extra history bit? Because this is due pretty soon. I'm still tracking some pictures, and looking for a way to make the transducer section look a bit more friendly - I don't want to take much out because I've already kept jargon to a minimum, and to take much more out will mean we start to lose information. And we did get a comment from someone that the text was fine the way it was, so I'd rather find a way to offset the information with pictures and formatting than delete any. Does that make sense? --z3252833 05:19, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
Hi Guys! I was just wondering if i could please get your permission to use your student drawn diagram, if you see our page im making a table with all our diagrams in it, and, of course, i need your permission to use it :) Thanks! Jill - group 2 --z3265772 02:56, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
Sure Jill! --z3252833 03:08, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
Review of comments
There were two major improvements suggested:
- More pictures of defects; more pictures of the machine itself (Suggestion noted and carried out --z3252833 11:20, 6 October 2010 (UTC))
- Break up/reduce some text/lose some jargon (Text broken up/offset with images --z3252833 11:20, 6 October 2010 (UTC))
- Adding a summary of the advantages/disadvantages of ultrasound and a table of when ultrasound should be used during pregnancy for prenatal diagnosis (Table of advantages/disadvantages added; timeline not shown as it is mentioned that screening takes place in the second trimester --z3252833 11:20, 6 October 2010 (UTC))
- Accuracy of ultrasound for each test (Not added since accuracy is largely dependent on ultrasound operator)
- More detail in the history section (Fixed by Nany)
- Make student-drawn status of images more clear (Fixed--z3252833 03:08, 23 September 2010 (UTC))
- Formatting – more consistent spacing (Fixed --z3252833 11:20, 6 October 2010 (UTC))
- In one of the tables, under the heading minor signs of trisomies, pleuxs should be plexus (Fixed--z3252833 03:08, 23 September 2010 (UTC))
- Use of tables and transducer diagrams
- Format/headings in terms of clarity of information
- External links
We only have two group members; it's been suggested that I break up some text in my transducer section and that my colleague add some more explanation of major events to her histroy section.
In terms of breaking up the work we're each going to work on the suggestions for our sections (i.e. I will break up text in mine and Nany will add pictures and history to hers. We will both look for more pictures and edit typos. --z3252833 01:35, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
Group 1: Your project is put together very well in terms of its structure and layout, making it easy to keep up with the expanse of information you have provided. The detail and depth you've gone into is very impressive especially in the "how it works" and "current uses" sections. The use of tables is especially effective in these sections because i feel it presents the content in a clear and concise way making it easier for the reader to understand and make comparisons. I also found the links to be a useful addition. One thing you could add to improve your page is to maybe elaborate on the limitations of ultrasounds in terms of accuracy in immediate diagnosis or a comparison with other diagnostic techniques. Otherwise, the page is very well thought out and i definitely felt like i gathered a thorough overview from it.
--z3293029 13:57, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
Group 1- well done overall on your page, I learned a lot from this page alone. The table comparing the different types of transducers and scans, and use of images made the page both engaging and aesthetically appealing. Placing links for further information under each section is something that would probably be useful for all groups on their pages. So well done on that. Your use of tables was very helpful allowing the reader to grasp a conceptual understanding. The abnormalities section is very interesting and highlights the importance of this procedure in prenatal diagnosis. Judging by your references, and detail there has been some extensive research which is great. Something that could be improved would be the How It Works section where the content suddenly becomes quite technically dense. I would suggest simplifying it a little and maybe tailoring the jargon to your audience a little more. That is, someone who knows very little about Ultrasound and it's technicalities. Also, some images under the Abnormalities section would also be helpful --Felicia Ton 13:22, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
GROUP 1: Ultrasound
The fact that the layout and format of the web page is well formatted makes it easy to follow. It has a really good flow. The tables in the section, especially the table describing the different transducer types made it extremely easy to understand and also the picture sort of make you want to read what the pictures are about. The images that you have on your webpage are really well explained yet as a criticism you could have more pictures for example pictures of the disorders that ultrasounds detect. The page has an extremely scientific feel so you don’t have to change anything there. There are some spelling mistakes like the people above have stated but that shouldn’t be a big problem as you will probably find these in your final check. I really found informative but is sort of thought that maybe if somebody without a background in science would struggle certain parts. Putting it under different sub headings also made this extremely easy to follow as well but all in all I really liked the page. Nice Work!!!
--z3252635 13:18, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
Your page is awesome! Good headings, tables, pictures and extensive reference list. The tables especially, I felt, helped break down the information in to blocks of information that were easier to swallow. As far as improvement goes, there isn’t that much to do except maybe nit-pick over formatting – ie: be more consistent with spacing etc.
--3186755 15:40, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
You guys have a very informative page, nicely organised and easy to follow. I found the Tables were very neat and eye catching and not cluttered. The technical aspects of ultrasound were covered really well, as well as the images accompanying them. Images were described in depth alongside the thumbnail.. however it wasn't too clear if there was a student drawn image on the page. Abnormalities were covered really well also, the information was easy to understand yet still being scientific in the language. I also liked how there were useful links throughout the page that relate to their topic. Things that could be improved would be on the Current Research heading, could be longer. References were good, with a nice glossary. overall, very nice :D
--z3224500 12:44, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
Group 1, your project is very detailed and there seems to be lots of research gone into it, also evident by your reference list. Your procedure section is very detailed and scientific, it maybe could be broken into more point form to make it easier to read. Your detail in abnormalities shows extensive research, the ultrasound specific heart defects is particularly interesting as it is a unique set of disorders that can be detected compared to the other techniques. Your current research is really interesting as well and easier to understand than some of the other projects. Overall, great job.
What could be improved: More detail in the history section, the time line gives a good overview but maybe some more detail on the key scientists and research leading to the procedure, besides a link to another page. Maybe some more pictures other than the ultrasound ones, like of disorders, or of the actual ultrasound machines would be good to break up the page.
--z3292208 09:48, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
The format of this page is excellent, there is a good balance of figures, tables and text. The clear and concise language consistent throughout makes the page accessible for anyone reading.
The project is great, maybe throw in a graph somewhere? It's a good visual tool that I think would compliment the information you have effectively. This is more of a suggestion than a critique, nice work.
--z3254753 16:40, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
GROUP PROJECT 1: ultrasound
Firstly I thought group 1s layout was great and very well organised, I particularly appreciated the external link that were quite interesting and informative. Also the relevant images on the web page helped in my understanding of the topic. I do think that I have learnt something about ultrasonography especially about the history and the science behind the equipment and techniques used. The only thing that I was left wanting to know was the accuracy of the ultrasound for each test.
What would improve this project? nothing really, good job guys.
--z3254433 07:11, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
Love the page, the layout is really easy to follow, everything seems to be in the right order and flow really well. i could easily follow what you have written. i really like the table on the types of transducers, i actually had no idea there were different kinds! One thing i found especially impressive, was that you have taken the time to explain every image when you click on it. this would've taken a lot of time and effort that isn't immediately available to see, but helpful if you need to know more about the image, you just click on it.
What could be improved: in one of the tables, under the heading minor signs of trisomies, pleuxs should be plexus. i didnt see any other spelling mistakes though. Also, it seems only one person has contributed most of the work? do you have three in your group? i found this to be the case for most pages.
--z3265772 23:12, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
--User:Z3129413 14:35, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
Engaging from the outset, it is a useful source of information if I was to have to use it to make a web page on the same topic, the opening picture instantly shows me what the proceedure is about and the rest of the subheadings backs this up. I prefer plenty of information written in this way and I think its fine as it is. The glossary and tables are excellent. From one reading I got all the information enough to confidently talk about all aspects of the topic. One little thing that may only have to be reworded is your statement concerning the potential for technician 'misdiagnosis' leading to undue parental anxiety, I'm not sure how much authority the technician has to inform the patient of what it appears they are seeing and does this have to pass by a Dr first. They could however be operating the equipment incorrectly giving poor results for instance maybe not bothering to use correct amounts of gel for interface.
I thought this project was very well done, and was easy to understand. The headings helped. I especially like the table describing the different sorts of transducers, the pictures made it easier to know what you were talking about. It was overall very informative as i learnt about how many different ways you can identify the embryo and how many defects can be detected.
What could be improved is perhaps a picture or two showing a defect, just to break up the amount of information presented. But otherwise this project was very good.
--z3291079 02:22, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
The website has a very clear structure making it easy to read. The contents are adequate for providing a basic overview of ultrasound to the general public. There is a good balance of text and pictures providing examples of various types of ultrasound images. I think it is a great idea to tables to present the different types of transducers used in ultrasound as it makes it very easy to spot and compare the different. From an academic point of view I find the website very educational, however from a practical point of view the site did not mention any cost or preparation required for the test.
What I think could be improve is adding a summary of the benefits of ultrasound and a table of when, over the course of pregnancy, should ultrasound be used with respect to its uses for prenatal diagnoses.
--3216889 11:58, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
This web page is very well set out. The information is clear and the subheadings are indicative of the historical development and the use of the ultrasound. I like the table format for the different types of ultrasounds as it provided a break from the text which in some parts seemed slightly superfluous. Overall this is an excellent webpage; it's educational value is high, it makes excellent use of external pages and it has an extensive glossary page which was greatly appreciated. Good job guys!!--Mary Nicolas 12:08, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
Group 1 Ultrasound The topic throughout the webpage was very clearly described, mainly due to the organisation of headings and sub-0headings. The reader will definitely have a clear understanding of ultrasound after looking at this page as the topic was explored very broadly. Also helping understand the content was a great use of tables, pictures and diagrams which gave me an understanding of the concept that text couldn’t alone e.g diagram of different transducers. However the text in some cases (transducers) was too bulky and may need to be broken up into points or more paragraphs or more sub-headings. Well done people the page looks really good.
--3290040 10:19, 22 September 2010 (UTC)
sam .. so how's it .. now i am verrrrrrrrry worried .. ??? please reply la .. is everything ok ? or ?? thanks .. anyways la .. am goin to bed ... if u want anything just call la .. :) .. cya tomz .. bye --Navneet Ahuja 16:25, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
Omg .. i just saw .. as soon as i click done .. i saw this .. omg i am so sorry .. u had to do them all alone .. i feel super bad la .. and is my part to less ?? u want me to do anything else?? and urs look so lovely with tables and all lol :)--Navneet Ahuja 16:15, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
No worries. I'll do a quick grammar check, but it all looks fine. I've worked with what I have to put together the bulk of what Alix was supposed to be doing. I hope it's okay. --z3252833 16:14, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
sorry la .. i think its ok now .. i tried .. i was like .. so stressed when no button seemed to work .. but luckily everything is fine now and yes .. thats the best i can do la .. as usual .. please feel free to change to add or do anything la .. thank u so much .. will cya tomz. :) --Navneet Ahuja 16:09, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
Hey sam .. I edited everything but i don't know why i could not save .. everytime i press save the error message pops up .. i did put in the PUBMED Id and edited the reference but it just keep showing me the error message even after the log off and log in again .. I cant understand it .. can i send the pubmed id to your email ?? i already edited everything ... omg .. I will send the whole section to your email . .can you please try to copy and paste it tomorrow morning ?? thank u .. :) --Navneet Ahuja 14:56, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
Hey i am gonna put a very non-finished version for u to see first so that u feel better lol .. i am doing the refs .. the everything now .. but just for you to see where this is goin .. i will put it up now .. and if the content is too less .. please tell me now lol ..but i think thats pretty much how much i can come up with .. i will try to do the history more tonight .. :) !! cya --Navneet Ahuja 13:31, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
Hi! Oh good, I'm sorry. I was just panicking a little. For an example about the history, look here: link. This is pretty intense, but it shows both what happened that year and why it's relevant. It also shows the referencing and how to code it. I know it's going to be hard; again, I've got family in hospital and assignments and exams too, but we have no choice here. We have to find time. Anyway, talk tomorrow. --z3252833 13:18, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
Hey there ... of course i am doing the current research thing la .. i am just a little worried about the ref lol .. and thank u for fixing everything up .. its much readable now .. i know that the history needs to be related to ultrasound but then it wouldnt be a time line ... But yeah we have to do alix part ?? now thats gonna be very difficult because i have 2 assignments coming up omg .. i am getting very worried !! anywayz i wil ltalk to you tomorrow as well and i think i will be done in about an hour or so but yes .. if u need anything just call me la .. thanks .. bye --Navneet Ahuja 13:06, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
Hey Nany. I'm going to just go and fix a few grammar things in your intro and timeline, if that's okay. Other than that, good... though wee need to explain why those historical points are relevant for ultrasound. I'll talk to you tomorrow, at any rate. Also, I finally managed to get through to Alix and she apparently has dropped the course, so we have to do her bit too. It's horribly late notice, I know, but we have to make the best of it. I'll see what I can do before tomorrow, but it's going to be hard. I looked at the page and you haven't put anything up but the history yet. I really, really hope you are doing the current research bit right now because I know we're both busy but I've managed to do an awful lot for my part, and with Alix gone we don't have much, and this is not a good standard. Sorry to sound so grim, but we're not in a good place. I'm counting on you. See you tomorrow. --z3252833 12:12, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
Hey sam .. I have already added a little intro ... and Its not an actual publication or an article its from a website .. so how do i reference that ?? and the website is History this one .. errm ?? sorry la .. :)--Navneet Ahuja 11:21, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
As I mentioned today, the timeline is great. I think an intro to it/overview would also be great, and references should be added in ASAP. Alix, we still haven't heard from you... are you okay? I'm a little concerned now. Are you still doing the course? Please, get back to me when you can! --z3252833 07:23, 15 September 2010 (UTC)
Hey guys ,.. i have uploaded the time line a couple of days back .. i dont know if its ok or not la .. so if u think something is wrong please tell me or feel free to change or edit anything la .. :) thank u ... --Navneet Ahuja 07:17, 15 September 2010 (UTC) nany
Hey guys! So I've gotten permission to use some ultrasound images and have uploaded them to the site. I'm still arguing with the scanner, but I will definitely have those drawn diagrams up by Sunday afternoon, even if I have to take photos of them and upload them that way (it would be sooner, but with my Grandmother in hospital and work I have some time issues). I have four images left to upload: a drawing of an ultrasound scan line, and the three transducers and ultrasound scan patterns. I'm glad you liked the table Nany, I hoped it would make things simple. How are you going with your timeline?
Alix, are you okay? We haven't heard from you in a while, and this is due for peer assessment on Thursday. I know we agreed that due to time constrictions on all our parts we would do the majority of out putting-information-up this week - are you going okay with your part?--Samantha Guinn 09:25, 10 September 2010 (UTC)
Hey there ...Sam i read through ur part and loved the table .. made things clear but i didnt get a chance to read through all the details yet and dont worry about my part it will be up very soon .. Tomorrow morning is my flight so the next time i can come online is friday morning (when i reach sydney) and i hope everything will be up by friday night if i am not too jetlagged lol .. anywayz .. I just wanted to update la .. :) --Navneet Ahuja 18:14, 8 September 2010 (UTC) Nany
Hi again! Hope you're all having a lovely break. I've put up a revised version of my section, and added some extra stuff. I've drawn the diagrams we need freehand since I find it easier than digitally, and am in the process of scanning them. They'll be up soon. Also, I'm in negotiations over some images for us to use. If you guys could have a read through of it and let me know what you think, that'd be awesome. Thanks! --z3252833 01:59, 6 September 2010 (UTC)
Hey guys..I read your part sam and i loved the glossary ...and u mentioned u sent emails .. I didnt get any la .. I am sorry but is it to Nany_van@hotmail.com because i really did not get anything..and yes for my part i will put it up soon may be this weekend (is that too late??? lol) and what did i miss from today's lab ? did mark mention anything about the gorup work ? are we goin ok ? thanks guy cya soon nany --Navneet Ahuja 01:33, 2 September 2010 (UTC)
Hey guys! I've put up part of my draft so that we have something up on the page. I know it's heavy on text but hopefully I'm going to cut that down a little, when I put the diagrams up and it becomes clearer. I'm in the process of making some diagrams for the kinds of scans, and I've emailed some people about ultrasound pictures, but they've not gotten back to me yet (so all those '(DIAGRAM)' bits will be replaced with actual pictures soon!). Worst comes to worst and I can't find a source of good ultrasound pictures in the public domain other than Wiki Commons, I'll draw more diagrams myself. Also, I haven't put up my stuff about Doppler or 3D ultrasound or the comparison of the types yet; they're coming - I have the info, I'm just trying to make it as clear and concise as possible. In other words, I'm getting there. I'll sort out the references soon too; I have another paper or two of interest but I'm having trouble downloading the whole things rather than just the abstracts. It's a computer thing and I'll sort it out soon. Also, I've shoved some terms into the glossary - tell me if they make sense. Hope you're going well! --z3252833 23:15, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
Dear mark .. I have already sent you an email regarding my leave on the next lab.. And as i've previously mentioned to my team mates i will still contribute to the group work but i just wanted to inform them that the reply might not be as instant as when i am here because of time differences and clashes on schedule ..--Navneet Ahuja 11:51, 31 August 2010 (UTC)
--Mark Hill 00:42, 31 August 2010 (UTC) Z3305561 You should contact me if you will be absent from laboratories. Also there is no reason that you cannot still contribute to group work as long as you have internet access. It is important that you complete your contributions before the peer assessment in the first week after the mid-semester break.
Importantly there is currently no content on your project page.
Hey guys i have to tell u something .. i will not be here for the next lab because i have to fly back to thailand for some issue thing .. Actually my flight was initially booked on thursday but now i have to go on wednesday so i wont be here for this week's lab .. I am soooo suppper sorry but of course we can still chat and talk and u know exchange infromation .. and u will definetly hear from me even when i am in thailand .. I have internet la lol .. my email is firstname.lastname@example.org so i think that might be a faster way to contact me .. I have already started on my part and will put the content asap .. (may be a couple of days..) and u guys can change or do what ever u guys want la .. I know it would be a little harder since i am in thailand to have instant reply but feel free to add , delete anything la .. and yes I will say this again .. I am deeply sorry i will have to miss the lab but if theres anything i can do pleasssssse let me know la and if i am behind in the project please let me know too la !!! ... cya guys soon :) !! well that is after the midsem
p.s. anyone wants anything from thailand ?? lol !!! nany---Navneet Ahuja 09:19, 30 August 2010 (UTC)
Hey alix ... get well soon la .. and don't worry about the lab ..!!! I am trying to search the "relevant resources" too .. like .. I was up the whole week and couldnt do much .. sorry about that guys .. anyways .. cya soon :) nany---Navneet Ahuja 23:23, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
I hope you feel better soon! I've been searching for public domain images; I'm finding them hard to come by. Here, however, is a link to a number of public domain images available on Wikipedia commons; they're not stunning but may be helpful: Potential ultrasound public domain images And here is another site I've found to be useful in explaining the basics of ultrasound : Obstetric Ultrasound: A comprehensive guide--z3252833 23:00, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Hi, I am also sorry but I am sorry because Im not going to be there this morning as I'm not too well. However if you need me I will be next to my computer for the duration of the lab and can be contacted via this discussion board. Sorry again.
--z3288088 21:30, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Hey guys .. I am sorry i haven't done much either .. and i am so sorry to hear that ur grandmother fell down .. Don't worry about it and i think our first deadline is due not next week but after the midsemester break ...!!! and i am gathering information for my part too .. its not structured yet .. will do it during this weekend too .. :) nany--Navneet Ahuja 11:40, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
Hi guys. I'm sorry I haven't written anything on the page this week. I had planned to have a draft yesterday, after my anatomy exam was done, but my grandmother had a fall yesterday afternoon and is now in hospital and can barely walk, so I'm afraid I didn't get to putting up my draft, and probably won't have anything up until the weekend. I know our first deadline is next week; I definitely have time on the weekend to get things done, and will have my draft up ASAP. Sorry, again! I'm doing what I can right now. I am designing a drawing for our page to explain the workings of ultrasound; it will be up be next week too. Also, in regards to Mark Hill's comment that we have no reference material, I have previously stated that I am currently using old-school information - hard copies of books - as reference, and they can't be linked to on this page (though I did give a link to on of the books I'm using). I'll tell you guys what I know when I see you, and you'll see the information when I have the draft up, but unitl then, there's not much I can do. See you tomorrow!--z3252833 10:06, 25 August 2010 (UTC)
--Mark Hill 04:32, 23 August 2010 (UTC) I cannot see any reference material here, other than the infection ref, or related images.
So as discussed We are each working on the following;
• Current Research and Future Directions
• Risks and Regulations
• Advantages vs. Disadvantages
--z3288088 00:51, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
Hello again! No problems, Nany. Nice start with the history; I think it's going to be easier to talk tomorrow than to write it here. It's hard to show what I've got since at the moment I'm mostly using a completely non-digital (and thus non-linkable) resource; a book called Diagnostic Ultrasound: Principles and Intstruments. Thihttp://php.med.unsw.edu.au/embryology/index.php?title=Talk:2010_Group_Project_1&action=edits is it, but you can't preview it online:
Also, this site by Discovery Health gives a simple overview of the workings of Ultrasound: Discovery Health Ultrasound
See you tomorrow!--z3252833 12:30, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
Hey guys...sorry for the last minute thing la ... its been a really hectic week and yes i do totally agree with the "table" idea since if it was me i would want all important points summarised as well ... and the time line for the history part is a must but since there is soooo much info for the history .. we gotta select out the most important once i guess.. !!! Ok here we go ...History of ultrasound...
In order to know how ultrasound works we first need to understand how sound waves work..i found not an article but a full website based on how it was developed .. errm .. it gives us an "IN DEPT" detail from 1826 .. Like i think we really select the information ...
1974= As for high frequency 'ultrasound', Lazzaro Spallanzani, an Italian biologist, could be credited for it's discovery
1826 = Jean-Daniel Colladon, a Swiss physicist, had successfully used an underwater bell to determine the speed of sound in the waters
1880 = The real breakthrough in the evolution of high frequency echo-sounding techniques was discovered by Pierre Curie and his brother Jacques Curie
1914 = The first working sonar system was designed and built in the United States by Canadian Reginald Fessenden
(this is just an example of the first couple of paragraph ...!! lol )
No worries! :)
What you've outlined sounds fantastic to me (and kudos for being so organised). Awesome! Honestly, I think our main problem is just going to be keeping it concise, since we need to keep a focus on diagnosing abnormalities too. Do you think a table would be a good way to present it? Just 'cause this is supposed to be aimed at our peers, and I know heaps of text makes me zone out but tables seem to make information easier to digest. Just a thought...
And - also just a thought - maybe we could do a timeline diagram of the history, too, to make it easier to read? It's also another way we can make our own diagram, which means we don't have to tackle all those copyright issues and we fulfill assessment criteria. I'm trying to put the "How it works" into a table or a flowchart, though I'm still researching it as well.
Is everyone doing alright with their bits so far? :) --z3252833 23:47, 16 August 2010 (UTC)
Oops, well I was just following Nany :P
So ultrasounds are done differently at different stages of the pregnancy, in the first, second and third trimester and they can also be used in the delivery process. Therefore I think the use and techniques of ultrasound would be best divided up into those 4 categories;
1. First Trimester
Ultrasounds preformed vaginally
2. Second Trimester
Ultrasounds preformed on maternal abdomen
3. Third Trimester
Also preformed on mummy’s tummy
To guide the inducing of a foetus or to determine if a caesarean is necessary
The routine ultrasound done for most women at 18-20 weeks generally looks for the following things;
• Foetal growth
• Foetal age/Delivery date
• Placental positioning
• Identify possible congenital abnormalities
• Detect ectopic pregnancies
• Check for multiple pregnancy
• Determine sex (just out of interest to parents, not medically necessary)
The below articles looks at some of the above characteristics and how they are used;
Also used to guide other diagnostic procedures such as chronic villus sampling and amniocentesis.
That’s mostly normal uses at the moment, will look at their use in diagnosis of abnormalities later
--z3288088 01:57, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
Hey again guys! (I think we're supposed to post at the top of the page instead of the bottom, so that's what I'm doing, if you're wondering.) So in terms of links to search Pubmed I made these last week on my student page so I'll paste them here. And I also have the Wiki code here for making the reference list and referencing Pubmed articles, for future reference.
Search Bookshelf: Ultrasound
Search Pubmed: Ultrasound
Ultrasound and the risk of nosocomial cross infection 
- ↑ B Sahu, N Raine-Fenning Ultrasound and the risk of nosocomial cross infection. Ultrasound Obstet Gynecol: 2010, 36(2);131-3 PMID:20681005
--z3252833 01:32, 12 August 2010 (UTC)
Hi group! So we should probably decide how much of the incredible amount of information on ultrasounds we're going to cover. I'm going to suggest - and feel free to disagree/agree/comment/whatever - that we do a least a bit on the sicence of how ultrasounds actually work before going into how you can use them to diagnose conditions prenatally. We're supposed to have at least one student-drawn diagram on our page and I figure we could have a diagram explaining how an ultrasound works, which would cover that objective. If you guys think it's an okay idea, I'd like to offer to cover this point - I love finding out how things work.
Also, if you have the time, could we just quickly email each other (even just a blank email) so we know the addresses work and no-one has a wrong spelling or anything? And whilst you guys have my email, I failed to be organised and don't have yours, so if it's not too much trouble to drop me a line... Thanks! :) --z3252833 01:18, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
hey there ... ermm i totally think the knowing how it works before jumping to prenatal diagnosis would be a great idea...and I am totally cool if you want the hand drawn image to be on how ultrasound works ... but wont that be complicated ? isnt drawing prenatal ultrasound be easier (like a pregnant women and the machine on her stomach) - if that made anysense lol .. and yes i would send u both email immidiatly ... (nany) :) --Navneet Ahuja 09:05, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
The science idea sounds good, and I agree with Sam it would be a good one for a diagram. I also think a historical overview of the development and use of ultrasound might be good. Then what its used for in terms of diagnosis (obviously necessary) and perhaps also a section on the risks, though they are few they do exist and there are reports/studies on them. I think this would be interesting... Anyway I will see you in 20minutes-ish so we can discuss it. --z3288088 22:42, 11 August 2010 (UTC) PS. forgot to email you, will do soon :)